Anshu Bahanda: Imagine this. You wake up in the morning, and almost without thinking, you reach up for your phone before you even sat up. The screen lights up with notifications.
There’s a message from your boss asking for something. There’s a message from your kids telling you something. There’s an email that needs your attention. Oh my God. Your mind switches on instantly. Sometimes your mind is switched on even before you’ve picked up your phone because you know those messages are going to be there. And you tell yourself that this is life. This is how life works. This is your life today. Researchers at the University of California found the average person switches tasks more than 300 times a day. And each interruption increases stress hormones in the brain. Another study from the University of Pittsburgh showed that constant noise, especially digital noise, reduces our ability to feel calm, even when we want to. It’s not surprising then that most people say the moments when they feel most connected to themselves are the quiet ones. You might have noticed that in those moments, things feel clearer.
Nothing overly dramatic happens, but you just, for perhaps one second, feel rejuvenated. You feel a little alive. That’s the kind of silence we’re talking about today. Not the dramatic, faraway kind, but the human kind. The kind that can change the way we see the world if we learn how to listen for it. This is Anshu Bahanda, and today on Wellness Curated, we’re talking about When Silence Speaks: The Wisdom of Stillness. This is a gentle but powerful journey into what silence can teach us about resilience and living with depth in this crazy, noisy world.
Welcome back to the Wellness Algorithm, where we explore the tools, practices, and ideas that help us live with more awareness and more intention. Wellness is not fixed. It evolves as we do, and at every stage of our lives, it asks us to listen more deeply to ourselves. Today we’re going to be talking about silence. Not the absence of noise, but the presence of attention. In a world where our minds are constantly pulled in every direction, silence offers a rare chance to pause and notice what is actually happening within us. It helps us think more clearly, feel more grounded, and reconnect with parts of ourselves that often get drowned out by the pace of our daily lives. Joining me today is someone who’s lived in silence in a way that very few people on the planet have. Erling Kagge is a Norwegian explorer and businessman, and he’s the first person in history to reach the North Pole, the South Pole, and the summit of Mount Everest on foot. He reached the South Pole alone. And he’s also the author of several books, including Silence, which has been published in 42 languages and continues to inspire people all around the world.
Before we begin, a small request, please subscribe to the podcast. It’s free and it supports our mission to bring you meaningful, well-researched, science-backed conversations. And if today’s episode resonates, share it with someone who might need this information. Thank you. Thank you, Erling, for being here with us today. I’m going to jump right into questions. So you’ve explored some of the most remote places on earth, as I said in my introduction, can you remember the first time on your journey when you actually understood the impact of silence and realised that it was more than just the absence of sound?
Erling Kagge: Yes, it was. Silence was growing on me. I spent a lot of time in nature and, I once walked alone, to the south pole for 50 days and nights without a radio in total solitude. What was interesting was that to begin with, it was a bit uncomfortable. It was absolutely silent around me, but soon also became silent inside me. I kind of started to discover my own inner silence. So that expedition taught me a great lesson on the importance of having silence in our lives. And also that this inner silence is about who you are and everything else. All kinds of noise, of course, sounds, but also from a telephone, a car passing, a radio, running, whatever, is all about running away from who you are. So yes. And then some years later, I had three teenage daughters and my life was all about noise so that I could really tell the difference. And I had a busy job, and that’s when I sat down to really try to understand what silence is.
AB: Right. And tell me something. You’re talking about having three teenage daughters. So for a lot of us, our lives are filled with commitments, with notification, with people pulling us in every direction, and with responsibilities pulling us in every direction. So in the context of the life you’ve led, the things you’ve been through, and the silence that you have experienced, how would you advise us to create boundaries that protect these moments of quiet without us disconnecting from our responsibilities?
EK: I believe it’s way easier than most people seem to believe. Obviously, the easiest thing in life is noise. To live through noise is to live through your screen, to believe that you can understand the world fully and you’re getting to know yourself much better by looking at a screen. So that’s the easiest. So of course silence is also about making life a little bit more difficult. And I strongly believe not everyone, but certainly if you’re born in Norway like I am, that you actively have to make your life a little bit more difficult if you’re going to be meaningful. And practical wise, you know, I should not give two minute advice. That’s not why I wrote about silence. And we think about silence. But then again I think to leave your phone a couple hours before you go to bed, put it on airline mode, don’t turn it on right away when you wake up in the morning and make sure that the kids are doing the same. I think that’s a really, really good beginning. And also just keep in mind that some of the brightest people in the world are working day and night to make you a slave of all this technology and make you the product of all this technology.
So it’s a matter about being the centre in your own life or if you’re going to live through everyone else. And of course unfortunately many people like to be someone else. But I strongly recommend everyone to try to get to know themselves better.
AB: Thank you. So that’s advice that you know, a lot of people also give. But it’s very valuable advice to put your phone off a couple of hours before going to bed. Don’t look at it first thing in the morning. But I want to ask you about a deeper kind of silence now, the one that you were talking about when you went to the South Pole where, where you said it wasn’t just; there was silence all around you as well. And that’s what forced you to face, or made you face your own thoughts and cause the silence inside you. Now how do we tell someone who feels uneasy or restless when things get quiet? I mean, I know a lot of people who walk into a room and put on the television or put on a radio or something because they’re uncomfortable with, with quiet.
EK: You know, most people are uncomfortable with quiet. And that’s not a new phenomenon. Like this European philosopher, Blaise Pascal, he wrote in the 1640s that a man is not able to sit alone by himself doing nothing. And instead of doing nothing he starts to do something. And that’s the beginning of all, of all his problems. So this, this is like, you know, this is something that has been problematic throughout the ages. But of course today with that we’re all connected at all times, it’s even more difficult. So I think we, you know, I think we have to accept that, life is supposed to be difficult. This whole idea that it should be comfortable at all times, that you should not have any or as little resistance in life as possible. And that again, like just pursuit of happiness throughout the day. All this to me is, you know, are just deep misunderstandings in life. And that’s also one of the reasons why people claim to be unhappy, lonely, sad, and even depressed. So the alternative is to be a little bit rougher on yourself. Go on a walk without bringing your phone, don’t turn, turn on all those screens you’re mentioning, that we kind of all kind of have the instinct to do, but stop and try to listen to your own inner silence.
And then of course, most people will say, but it’s uncomfortable. Yeah, it is uncomfortable because this inner silence is about who you are. It’s about getting to know yourself. But, it’s not about living a more egocentric life, to take a pause from everything else and listen to yourself. To me, as I learned to the South Pole, but also as a father of teenage daughters, and also as a businessman, I learned that this silence is not about turning back to the world. It’s the opposite. It’s about seeing the world from a different perspective. It’s about understanding yourself. And, it’s very much about loving life.
AB: So you made a very interesting comment. In fact, you said that twice. And that’s very unusual in today’s day and age, though a lot of philosophies believe that. And you said life is meant to be difficult. It’s not all meant to be easy. I want you to explain that to our audience.
EK: I think, you know, today in the major parts of the world, had this idea that, that happiness, that you can, that you can chase happiness. But of course, if you chase happiness throughout the day and throughout your life, you will never achieve much happiness. And somehow happiness has to come following you, has to chase you. It’s the other way around. And if you’re going to live a content life, or feel content, it’s about getting to know yourself. It’s about fulfilling your own potential in life. And all these are not my ideas. These are the kinds of ideas that have survived for thousands of years. And I think every idea that has survived for more than a thousand years we should take seriously. But to achieve any of this, you need to explore your own inner silence.
Doesn’t matter if you’re 5 years old or 85 years old. That’s the only way. And it is, it is difficult. So that’s why I say, you have to kind of actively make your life more difficult than it has to be, I believe. That’s my experience. You know, people may differ. That’s totally okay. But I also believe that you need to follow your own path, like in Sanskrit, Svamārga. And that again is to listen to yourself. And also the good thing, if you get to know yourself better, it’s also easier to appreciate other people. And of course, it’s all way easier to have a good life.
AB: Thank you, Erling. That’s a very, very spiritual view that you have. I mean, you know, you could be talking straight out of a Vedanta book. So thank you for that. But I want to ask you something about creating more calm in people’s lives. So you did give us one practical step, but can you give us some small practical steps which can help people’s homes and offices feel quieter, or mentally calmer?
EK: I think, you know, the best I have, to me, the best is to spend some time in nature. I think the biggest mistake we’re making in the world today is not to listen to nature more than we do. Like, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. And this whole idea that we don’t need nature, that we are concrete nature, that we’re separate from nature, that’s one source of so many of the problems we have in the world today. And of course, it’s way easier.
AB: I agree, I 100% agree.
EK: Of course, if you live in the city centre of New Delhi or London for that matter, nature is far away. So, but there is still nature there too. I mean, there’s many trees in Delhi and there’s great squares in London. But then I think you know this in the silence I’m talking about, it’s there inside you at any time, waiting for you to discover it and try to experience it. And you can do it when you walk up the stairs and taking the lift. You can do it when you have a shower in the morning. You can do it when you’re cooking. Maybe even better if you do the dishes, because no one is going to disturb you. So, there’s all these possibilities. This whole idea that it’s not possible for me now, that’s not correct. Because nothing in the world, nothing in life is 100% or 0%. It’s always degrees between 0.1- 99.9. And of course, when I had three teenage daughters it was much more difficult to explore my inner silence. But still, it was possible. I even sometimes I, to my office, I walk the stairs, but I walk backwards the stairs.
AB: Oh wow.
EK: Because then you really have to focus on the moment. You don’t think about the future. You don’t think about the past. You’re not thinking about your phone. You just have to focus about being there and then. And putting your steps right. And that makes you be very much present in the moment. And that’s, you know, that’s a good way to start your working day. And of course, you try to do it when no one is watching, because then you have to explain to them why, why you’re doing it. But it’s, but my point is, it’s always possible to explore your own silence.
AB: So tell me something, have you ever found yourself. I read your book, both your books, in fact. I read Silence, and I read Walking. Now tell me, have you ever felt that you’re in a room full of people in a very noisy room, but you could tune into your inner silence? Do you feel that often? How can we help people do that?
EK: I, you know, when I’m in a room with many people, sometimes I feel lonely because, you know, if you don’t know so many of the people, you’re standing there by yourself. I felt much more loneliness and being, you know, in my life with many people than being by myself. But maybe, you know, in a room with many people, maybe you should try to be social, not to listen to inner silence all the time. Because, you know, we’re also born as Homo sapiens to be a social being. So I think it’s really important to socialise, to have friends, to interact with other people. But then again, I find it way more easy to be social, when I can also relate to my inner silence.
AB: So now tell me, you’re talking about being social. Now, very often we feel like connection and being social comes from talking. So what would you advise people about the role of silence in relationships and communication and being truly present with another human being? Does silence play a role in all this?
EK: Yes. You know, I should be careful not giving too many advices, but I can tell about my own experiences and also, you know, from people I talk to, their experiences. And in terms of relationships, I think, you know, my experiences, if we need to put words on everything we feel, everything we want, everything we like to ask the other person about, I think then it’s a tough luck to make the relationship survive. I think when you get really close to your partner, you should be able to communicate. Not all the time, of course, but sometimes in silence. There should always be, you know, at least, at least for me, if I have a girlfriend and she doesn’t understand at any time unless I explained her in words what I want or what I feel or what I’m thinking about, I think we are in deep shit.
AB: Okay. And also, you talked about loneliness. So tell me, what is the difference that you see between silence and loneliness? What is the difference in experiencing them, the two? Because very often people mix the two up. They feel in quiet moments or silent moments, they start beginning to feel lonely.
EK: Yeah, you know, it’s easy to feel lonely. It’s easy to feel bored, and it’s easy to kind of, you know, get, feel very restless, when you’re exploring your own silence. And, you know, that’s why most people, or so many people are not kind of trying to explore their own silence because it’s, you know, it’s not an easy ride. And that’s why people prefer to run away from the ones they are, because that’s the easiest in life to live through other people. So, you know, I don’t really have a remedy for it. You just have to accept that, like, you know, for half a minute, five minutes, maybe for an hour, it is, it is uncomfortable. You feel lonely in, in this, this silence. And also, you know, you can also feel bored.
And I remember when I was a kid, my mother told me I was bored. At that time I was bored because nothing is happening. Today, people are bored because they have too many options, too many things happening. But it’s kind of the same feeling. And, and my mother said to me, Erling, it’s healthy to be bored every now and then. And I felt that was absolutely stupid comment. But of course, today, 55-57 years later, I can see that my mother was right.
AB: Yeah. But tell me, so when life feels noisy or stressful, as it’s getting for so many people around the world, are there signs that tell us that we need a pause or silence? And how can people recognize these signals? Because there’s way too many people reaching burnout in the world today. And there’s way too many people going into anxiety and depression. So my question is, at what stage can you tell that life is getting too noisy or stressful? What signs rather should we look at that we need to just break away. And we need silence. And we need a pause.
EK: Yeah, I think if you, if you wonder about it, there’s probably too much noise in your life. It’s, it’s too much noise. And, and, so I think, you know, it’s, so if you ask yourself this question, you probably have too much, too much noise in your life.
AB: So on that note, I think there’s about, there’s probably 60%, 50-60% of the Earth’s population who have too much stress, too much noise in their lives today. I mean, whether it’s been caused by wars, whether it’s been caused just by lifestyle, whether it’s been caused by technology. What can they do? What would you advise that they do?
EK: You know, it’s a good question in the sense that I think for many people, you know, they don’t have a choice. As I said, you know, if you’re part of a war, I mean, I’m not the one to give you any advice because, it’s, it’s touchwood, it’s, you know, it’s something I don’t know much about. So, but, but then again, on the other side, I know quite a lot about life in many, many parts of the world. Then I think, you know, you need to see that, understand that silence is something. Like I asked my teenage daughters, and not teenage teenagers anymore, I asked them about silence, and they said to me, but silence is nothing. Which again, like, you know, in philosophy, the first year in college, if you study philosophy, you will learn that nothing comes from nothing. And that’s also probably why, one of the reasons why philosophers write so little about silence. But of course, silence is something.
And silence speaks to you. And you can have a communication, not kind of proper dialogue with words, but you can still have an exchange of thoughts and ideas with silence. And in silence, with silence, you become more creative and you’re getting to know yourself, as I said, but also believe you become a better human being.
AB: So tell me something. I mean, you said we were talking about technology. We started this conversation about, with, talking about having no digital noise, say two hours before we sleep and just after we wake up. Is there any other thing you can recommend, realistic steps that people can take to reduce digital noise? For example, one of my Jewish friends said to me that during Sabbath, he doesn’t go on his phone, and that really helps him. So is there any advice you can give to people out there? Because one of the biggest issues is digital noise, isn’t it?
EK: Absolutely. But, you know, it’s, it’s, I think it’s difficult to give advice. I think, you know, most people know what it takes. It’s not complicated. It’s, you just have to be willing to do that tiny sacrifice to get to know yourself better. And to relax and have this pauses from the noise and to allow each moment to be big enough. Not living through the past, not living through the future, then being there and then, So I think, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s people is kind of. It’s easy to say that, you know, in major parts of the world, we have sufficient material goods. The only thing we lack is enough time. And to me that doesn’t make sense. We have way enough time. The problem is that we’re wasting our time. So life is long if you don’t waste your time.
But of course, if you tend to do the same things every day. Checking your phone, checking your phone, doing this, doing that, checking your phones, looking into a screen, trying to understand what’s going in your own life and other people’s life just by sitting in a chair looking down, then life will feel really short. And it is short because both time and space will be narrowing in. But if you live a different life and you know, look up, look up into the sky, try to see the stars, go walking, thinking, read some great novels, listen to some really good music, then time expands and also space expands and life feels pretty long.
AB: Lovely. Now tell me, you know when you walked to the North Pole alone. The South Pole. The summit.
EK: North Pole with a friend, with Børge Ousland.
AB: Oh so North Pole was with a friend. I thought it was alone as well. So was the South Pole and the Everest summit alone?
EK: Everest summit with other people, but South Pole for sure by myself.
AB: So did you ever get to a stage where you felt like, I can’t deal, I need to hear some noise. I can’t deal with this anymore?
EK: No. To begin with, and I experienced this several times because, you know, when I’ve been sailing the oceans and spending time in the forest, in the mountains, and then Antarctica by myself, to begin with, you have that feeling, that uncomfortable feeling, but then you calm down, you accept reality and, like, you know, take it as a stoic. This is, you know, this, this is what, you know, how, this is how to relate to reality. And, from then on, it’s become an expedition into yourself. And that’s a really, really great journey. It is like, you know, Emily Dickinson, the poet, she wrote that your brain is wider than the universe. And that’s true.
AB: Lovely. And tell me, your book has resonated with, your book Silence especially, has resonated with people around the world. Why do you think people are getting so drawn to the idea of silence and stillness at this point in, in the development of history, so to say?
EK: Because, people are smart, people are clever, they have experiences. They, you know, it’s a sure sign of intelligence that you learn from your own experiences. And they, you know, people see that their lives are lacking something really, really important and that’s about who they are and what are the meanings of life and why am I here and where am I heading. So then, you know, you see, many people see, you know, I have to relate to silence. This life I’m living in many ways is a good life, but parts of my life still is being wasted.
AB: And if you were to give people some advice from your experience, which takes them, beyond putting their digital noise off before and after sleep, what do you think can make a bigger difference to their lives? What should they be doing?
EK: I think, you know, time allowing and you know, depending on where you live in the world, spend more time in nature. Listen to Mother Earth, as I mentioned. I’m not saying everyone can do it and I’m saying that many people have bigger problems that they have in life that are not related to silence. I just talk in kind of a general overview, that most people are underestimating themselves, underestimating their possibilities in life and also underestimating their, kind of, chances for actually spend a little time in nature. We are a part of nature.
AB: Yeah, we are nature. That I 100% agree with. We think we were conquered it like you said, but we are part of nature. And when nature decides to teach us a lesson, it really does, doesn’t it?
EK: Every time.
AB: And we have no power.
EK: No, not compared to nature. And you know, that’s why I think, you know, that we have to great degree separated ourselves from nature. That’s a source for problems in the world on an individual level and on the global level. Individual level, that people, as I said earlier on, that people claim to be sad, lonely, depressed, etc. And of course it’s easy to feel sad, lonely and depressed if you don’t relate to nature at all. And even worse if you just mostly relate to looking into a screen. So I’m not anti-technology, I’m just saying like, you know, it has gone too far. And on a global scale with climate change, it’s really difficult to relate to climate change too. If you believe you don’t need nature or that you don’t relate to nature. So this, this problem is both very deep and very wide.
AB: So I have a question for you on that. You know how technology is hugely helpful, it’s changed the way we live. But, there is, but every time someone asks me why would I not wear any of the wearables? I don’t know, I just don’t get used to having it on my body. I can’t wear an aura ring. It just doesn’t feel right to me to have more technology than I already do, because I already have a phone on me all the time or a lot of the time. So what is your opinion on wearables? And secondly, what is your opinion and people talking about chipping the brain?
EK: The second question I think, you know, it’s, it’s really difficult one because you know, obviously we have to define, you know, all the time what it is to be a human. Being what, Homo sapiens and of course what to be as Homo sapiens have changed throughout the times. So now it will change again. But you know, on that, on that, on that one, it’s so complicated. So I can’t give you a good quick answer that I’m, you know, I, you know, it’s about being aware of your own limitations. But, on the other hand, like an autobear, these rings, these measurements on the shoulder, all this, to me, that’s a mistake. First, because there’s so many things you can’t measure. Second, all these things they claim to measure so properly, even if you stay at a top-notch hospital somewhere, they have a difficulty, you know, measuring your sleep, measuring different things. And the whole idea that you can do it by having a ring on the finger, I don’t believe in.
So I’m not saying it’s all bullshit. But I think, you know, I think you’re doing a mistake because we need to be, you know, we need to teach ourselves to listen to our body in a natural way. And if you, if you don’t, I had this girlfriend who, you know, measures everything by numbers all the time and she said, you have to believe the data, you have to believe the numbers. And I said, like, you know, fair enough, but when the numbers are wrong, I can’t. Or like it’s hard to prove. I can’t really see any reason to believe in them. So anyway, I also believe in silence, you should just listen to your body. If something is aching, you should change. If your hip is aching, you should move in a different way. You should stop doing something, start doing something else. Etcetera, etc, etcetera. So, and in terms of sleep, you know, you don’t really need a watch to tell you that you don’t sleep so well.
If I’ve been drinking a bottle of red wine, but maybe better after two glasses. But it’s so no, this is something you have to understand yourself. I believe that’s my, that’s my experience. And I think, you know, your kids, grandchildren will laugh their heads off if you tell them that, you know, I had this ring on me and that kind of measured so and so and so.
AB: Yeah, that’s interesting. That’s interesting because there’s people who take data for everything. They wear, you know, they, they live on data and they. So it’s interesting. Again, yours is, you know, the other point of view. So, listen to yourself and you’ll get the answers.
EK: Yeah, most of the answers. Yeah. At least I think more answers than they get from that ring.
AB: So Erling now, we’re going to do this fun rapid fire round. It’s called truth in one word. So I’m going to give you a word and you tell me the first truth or idea that comes to your mind. Stillness.
EK: Meaning of life. Meanings of life.
AB: Courage.
EK: Doing something despite it is a huge risk.
AB: Lovely. Attention.
EK: Being present in your life.
AB: Wonder.
EK: Let wonder be the engine in your life.
AB: Home.
EK: That’s, that’s where I live when I go out traveling or hiking or do whatever I do.
AB: Wonderful.
EK: Unfortunately where I return from.
AB: Okay, lovely. Thank you so much, Erling. That was such a thoughtful and grounding conversation.
EK: Thank you for inviting me.
AB: That was such an incredible, amazing, magnificent, conversation with Erling Kagge. Today’s discussion reminded us that silence is not just something far away or unreachable. It’s something we can create in small everyday moments, in little pockets, if we create the space for it in our lives. Understanding what silence can offer, learning how to make room for it, and realizing that quiet can support us rather than overwhelm us, gives us a new way to approach our wellbeing. If something in this episode helped you slow down, rethink your relationship with noise, or consider how silence might fit into your own life, please share it with someone who may need a moment of calm today. And don’t forget to subscribe. It’s free and it helps us continue creating a community that learns, supports, and grows together. I’m Anshu Bahanda. Take care of yourself. Be gentle with your pace, and remember that stillness is not the absence of life, it’s the space that helps you live it more fully and more presently. Thank you.
